The Ancillotti Challenge!

[Powolotti]

I started this in GSF a few months ago, might also be of interest to you...

The Challenge: I give 1 crate of beer to the person with the highest horsepower and 1 crate of beer to the person with the highest torque. Dyno curves must be from an Amerschläger P4 with newest software to have at least a bit of comparison.

You must use a freely available cylinder and a box type exhaust like a Clubman or Ancillotti.

It should be a road bike and not a Clubman grafted onto a LC TS1 monster just for the graphs. Putting an Ancillotti
onto a Hayabusa also sucks.

For now it´s interesting to see that the torque peak is in the same region with all setups and that you can have good peak power with a wide, usable spread.

The challenge ends on the 4th october, here are some results so far:


power (hp / @ revs) - (cylinder / exhaust / carb / ignition / dyno chart)

1. 22,5 / 8373 - SCK Philipp (TS1 MRB Racetour tune / Ancillotti / 30mm TMX / BGM with lightened flywheel / http://www.germanscooterforum.de/post_a243968_.html
2. 21,9 / 8099 - Powolotti (Mugello Powolotti Touring tune / Ancillotti / 30mm TMX on LTH reed manifold / AF Ducati with Agusto 6000 / http://www.sqooter.com/pictures/2009/20 ... tall07.pdf
3. 19,0 / 5461 - SCK Ulf (TS1 Harry Barlow tuned / Ancillotti / 30mm TMX / BGM Prototype ignition / http://www.germanscooterforum.de/post_a218544_.html
4. 17,9 / 6764 - Spitzbua Rene (TS1 / Ancillotti / 30mm TMX / AFR / http://www.sqooter.com/pictures/2009/20 ... tall08.pdf
5. 16,5 / 6713 - Athanasius (TS1 / Ancillotti / 32mm TMX / Varitronic / http://www.sqooter.com/pictures/2008/20 ... stro01.pdf
6. 16,4 / 7200 - Pferschy (cast 210 cc / Ancillotti / 24mm Mikuni / Indian electronic with lightened flywheel http://www.germanscooterforum.de/Lambre ... 1066151350
7. 13,4 / 5376 - Schmied (cast 175 cc / Ancillotti / 26mm Stage6 / BGM with AFR flywheel / http://www.germanscooterforum.de/post_a166990_

torque (lb ft - now changed from Nm for easier reading for you / @ revs) - (cylinder / exhaust / carb / ignition / dyno chart)

1. 19,03 / 4635 - SCK Ulf (TS1 Harry Barlow tuned / Ancillotti / 30mm TMX / BGM Prototype ignition / http://www.germanscooterforum.de/post_a218544_.html
2. 15,64 / 4890 - Powolotti (Mugello Powolotti touring tune / Ancillotti / 30mm TMX on LTH reed manifold / AF Ducati with Agusto 6000 / http://www.sqooter.com/pictures/2009/20 ... tall07.pdf
3. 15,39 / 6651 - SCK Philipp (TS1 MRB Racetour tune/ Ancillotti / 30er TMX / BGM with lightened flywheel / http://www.germanscooterforum.de/post_a243968_.html
4. 14,9 / 4590 - Athanasius (TS1 / Ancillotti /32mm TMX / Varitronic / http://www.sqooter.com/pictures/2008/20 ... stro01.pdf)
5. 14,16 / 4879 - Spitzbua Rene (TS1 / Ancillotti / 30mm TMX / AFR / http://www.sqooter.com/pictures/2009/20 ... tall08.pdf
6. 14,09 / 4208 - Schmied (cast 175 cc / Ancillotti / 26mm Stage6 / BGM mit AFR Polrad / http://www.germanscooterforum.de/post_a166990_
7. 12,76 / 4577 - Pferschy (cast 210 cc / Ancillotti / 24mm Mikuni / Indian electronic with lightened flywheel http://www.germanscooterforum.de/Lambre ... 1066151350

[RinB]

Did you give yourself a crate then Michael

[drunkmunkey6969]

Wow Powolotti that'ds agreat post, thanks.

I'd be interested to know how other dynos compare to ours for readings etc. I know that on 3 scooters that have been on both mine and Diablos dyno we are both within approx half a bhp of each other, but it would be interesting to know +/- where we stand with others.

[Powolotti]

Did you give yourself a crate then Michael

nooooo

At the start I did not think I will take part as I was not planning to build such a slug It just came later when I was offered a damaged Mugello cylinder, then the things started to get rolling...

[Powolotti]

Wow Powolotti that'ds agreat post, thanks.
I'd be interested to know how other dynos compare to ours for readings etc. I know that on 3 scooters that have been on both mine and Diablos dyno we are both within approx half a bhp of each other, but it would be interesting to know +/- where we stand with others.

When Scooter Attack did one of their massive Auto-meetings they had - I think - 4 dynos side by side. Same manufacturer, same software, etc. Also these had a bit different readings on the same day...

I think it is not mega-important to know exactly how much hp you have, what you can see is when your engine peaks, how torque behaves over the rev-band and you can see if changes make an improvement or not.
Someone who puts his scoot on a dyno during a rally will think different, but what dynos do or where they play a part is misunderstood by many.

If you have 1/2 a hp difference between your two dynos - that´s fine! You could have the same on your dyno during two test runs (different engine/exhaust temperature, climate box a bit off, etc.)

[RinB]

I think it is not mega-important to know exactly how much hp you have, what you can see is when your engine peaks, how torque behaves over the rev-band and you can see if changes make an improvement or not.

Someone who puts his scoot on a dyno during a rally will think different, but what dynos do or where they play a part is misunderstood by many.

Too True words m8

Ie dyno output can change just by how differently it is strapped down

Smiffy

[Powolotti]

got a new reed block yesterday for testing purposes...

It´s also from Stage VI like the one originally supplied with the LTH reed manifolds. First thing, it comes with stiffer carbon reeds and lighter fibre reeds, 3 (!) different stuffers, standard reed stops and rev plates! If you imagine that Lambretta owners have to modify nearly all parts and buy this and that that hopefully fits together then these automatic boys are really lucky. Thumbs up for Stage VI for that reed kit!!

The reed does not fit into the LTH manifold without machining for now, but if testing shows good increases a new manifold will be produced. Pre-testing shows increases of 1 to 2 hp over the rev range...

I will fit it after my holidays in croatia and dyno it mid to late august and post results.

[Powolotti]

results updated in first post!

[cezeta]

im watching this post with keen interest. i have just had a ts1 240 racetour 60mm crank racetour 71mm piston v force reeds and odd as it sounds the exhaust port has been welded and widened to creat a torquee power delivery.....i wanted it like a four stroke.

i had clubmans on the previous ts1 and loved the power delivery.

i would say with the power being achieved from these engines combined with the delivery, they will be faster on the road than more powerfull motors with higher bhp peak but lacking lower down.

i did a small test this week comparing a clubman, jl3 and a kegra race pipe. firstly i prefered the jl3 and clubman but i timed myself on a small street circuit. the kegra race which gave a strong power band was the slowest but clearly most powefull, the jl3 was only slightly faster than the clubman probaly because it revved slightly further than the clubman. it made me wonder what the sito ancilotti would be like as that revs out better than the af one.

its a muggello 225 out of the box, only 12bhp on replays dyno....literally just bolted together. it will get further attention once the ts1 is on the road again

[Train Driver]

Cezeta if you don't bolt your Mb skunk works project in to a frame we will never know what it produces.

mikuni 24mm
ancillotti clubman
classic rapido 225 (no tune just cleaned up the messy ports)

15.3bhp at 6900 rpm
13ft/lb torque at 5290 rpm
dyno'd at Jb

would like to see 18ft/lb and 22bhp at the same revs later this year when replay rebuild my engine with a 62mm stroke crank